derisively-intellectual mets chatter

May 06, 2004

A Tough Choice


ESPN.com's baseball page had/has a poll question that, unlike most of their silly polls, is actually very thought-provoking. The question goes like this:
If you only had one Hall of Fame vote, who would you give it to?

a) Barry Bonds
b) Roger Clemens
Very interesting indeed. Which of these ridiculous freaks of nature gets left off of the ballot? On the one hand, you have, in my estimation, the third greatest hitter ever (behind Ruth and Williams). On the other hand, you have one of the best pitchers since WWII, right up there with Tom Seaver. Thoughts?


Comments

I'd go with Clemmens. With all due respect to Bonds whose accomplishmnts are obviously mercurial, good pitching has been harder to come by than good hitting during the course of these two players careers. Pitchers appear to be over matched against todays crop of hitters (for whatever reasons). In my mind that gives pitching accomplishments an edge over hitters.

Posted by: Dave - May 6, 2004 at 12:24 PM EST

Both have been great players for a long time. Bonds has six MVPs (soon to be seven), Clemens has six Cy Youngs (maybe soon to be seven).

I would contend that, despite his dominance, Clemens has never had a stretch in his career where he so utterly laid waste to the competition the way Bonds has over the past 3+ seasons.

Posted by: Eric Simon - May 6, 2004 at 12:46 PM EST

It'd be a tough choice, but I'd go with Bonds. Not to belittle anything that Clemens has accomplished, but what Bonds has done over the past 4.5 years has been simply inhuman. This all comes after his prior seasons of "normal" baseball which by themselves were HOF worthy.

Beyond that, I feel that Bonds is at least tied for the best hitter to ever play the game (Williams). I can't say the same about Clemens and pitching.

Posted by: Mike Marino - May 6, 2004 at 02:58 PM EST

Not a tough choice at all. Both are very deserving and both will ne first ballot selections, but if I could choose only one, it's Bonds in a walk. Clemens is certainly among the 20 or 30 greatest pitchers ever; Bonds is among the 3 greatest hitters ever. The only other hitters in Bonds' class are Ruth and Williams.

Posted by: Randy - May 8, 2004 at 06:34 PM EST

I would pick Bonds easily.

Bonds' achievements are exceeded only by Ruth and Wagner.

(Wagner was in the Top 5 for RBIs' 14 seasons in a row for teams that dominated the very compeitive early years of the National League. Williams is NOWHERE near the hitter that Wagner was).

While Clemens is certainly a genuinely great pitcher he is matched very closely by Seaver and his performance numbers, as opposed to results, are exceeded by Randy Johnson.

Posted by: Steven Gallanter - May 14, 2004 at 03:23 PM EST

Are you kidding? Ted Williams has the second highest OPS+ in the history of the game (Wagner is #35). He is the career leader in OBP (Wagner is #92), second all-time in SLG, and beats Wagner by a mile in homeruns (512-101), runs (1798-1736) and RBI (1839-1732) despite missing close to four of his prime seasons defending our country.

Please let me know what would lead you to make such an absurd statement.

Posted by: Eric Simon - May 14, 2004 at 09:56 PM EST

SABERMETS INFO







SPONSORS


what's this?
CALENDAR

August 2005
Sun Mon Tue Wed Thu Fri Sat
  1 2 3 4 5 6
7 8 9 10 11 12 13
14 15 16 17 18 19 20
21 22 23 24 25 26 27
28 29 30 31      
SEARCH

BOOKS

Currently Reading:

Rob Bradford: Chasing Steinbrenner
Chasing Steinbrenner
Rob Bradford

Jeff Pearlman: The Bad Guys Won
The Bad Guys Won
Jeff Pearlman

Baseball Prospectus 2004
Baseball Prospectus 2004


Lawrence S. Ritter: The Glory of Their Times
The Glory of Their Times
Lawrence S. Ritter

On Deck:

Bill James: Whatever Happened to the Hall of Fame
Whatever Happened to the Hall of Fame
Bill James

Just Finished:

Jim Bouton: Ball Four
Ball Four
Jim Bouton

Pete Rose: My Prison Without Bars
My Prison Without Bars
Pete Rose
METS NEWS

ARCHIVES

RECENT ENTRIES

RECENT COMMENTS

Slammin' Sammy at Shea (9)
Peter wrote: Stanton is on the Yankees...What th...[more]

Spring Training Open Thread (5)
John E wrote: I agree with the injury concerns an...[more]

This Is Me Talking (5)
a2d wrote: I think we all came off well. I was...[more]

Bloggy McBloggerson (2)
bronxmetfan wrote: What is going on with Ayer Soler (t...[more]

Mientkiewicz or Lee (8)
m2c2c2 wrote: This was my least favorite move of ...[more]

METS INFO

METS IN PRINT

METS BLOGS

OTHER BASEBALL BLOGS

BASEBALL WEBSITES

BASEBALL COLUMNISTS

MLB PLAYER INDEX

TOOLS FOR FOOLS

REQUIRED READING

Goodbye To Some Old Baseball Ideas
Branch Rickey

Pitching And Defense
Voros McCracken

Pitching And Defense
Tom Tippett

The Sabermetric Manifesto
David Grabiner

Transaction Primer
Rob Neyer

Rule V Draft Explanation
Baseball America

... in progress ...
CREDITS

Powered by
Movable Type 2.661

Creative Commons License
This weblog is licensed under a Creative Commons License.