derisively-intellectual mets chatter

September 28, 2004

The Plan: Take One, Part Two


Yesterday, I began discussing the Star Ledger's plan to fix the Mets. You can read that here.

Today, I'll finish our discussion of that article, which includes the Mets pitching staff and potential free agent acquisitions.
PITCHING STAFF

SHOULD STAY

Starters: Kris Benson, Tom Glavine, Victor Zambrano and Steve Trachsel. It's a quartet of No. 3 starters on a playoff team, but if they add Matt Morris it could be one of the deepest rotations in the National League. This is, of course, all based on Zambrano not having elbow surgery.
If anyone would actually take Tom Glavine and/or Steve Trachsel, God bless them. Glavine and Trachsel are both #4 starters, so if Victor Zambrano and Kris Benson can slot in as #2's, the staff might be in decent shape. That's a big "if", of course. Jeremy Heit did a nice job charting Benson's progress over the past few years in terms of game scores, and he's getting better. Since coming to the Mets, Benson's game scores break down thusly:

Less than 40: 2 (27,18)
Bet. 40 and 60: 4 (40,46,47,43)
More than 60: 4 (69,65,86,71)

Not bad. Three of those very good starts came in his past four outings, and against quality opponents in the Marlins, Braves, and Cubs. According to Newsday, Benson and the Mets are getting closer on a three-year deal worth $21-$24 million, which is probably okay. With Zambrano likely to make in the $1-$2 million range at arbitration, the Mets can probably afford to go a million or so over market to keep Benson.

I have no problem with Steve Trachsel as our fourth-best starter. He's not great, but he's not terrible. Sticking with the game score theme, here is how Trach's season breaks down, including tonight's start against the Braves:

Less than 40: 7 (12,31,34,23,25,38,35)
Bet. 40 and 60: 17 (48,54,49,46,54,59,41,54,55,45,41,50,53,49,51,45,54)
More than 60: 9 (61,62,67,64,70,68,69,64,63)

He mostly throws average games, with more very good games than terrible games. Yup, that fits the bill as a #4 starter. He's on the books for $5 million in 2005, which is palatable.

Glavine is another story. He's owed $10.5 million in 2005 and his $6.5 million option for 2006 will vest if he pitches 200 innings next season. If he doesn't, the Mets can opt out for $3 million. More important than the money is the fact that Glavine just isn't a very good pitcher. He's not terrible, but he's not really appreciably better than Trachsel. Here are his 2004 game scores, including tonight's game:

Less than 40: 7 (29,39,25,29,32,34,34)
Bet. 40 and 60: 17 (56,42,59,45,46,58,57,56,50,52,45,49,48,57,42,54,40)
More than 60: 8 (65,76,62,74,92,66,71,67)

Look familiar? It breaks down much the way Trachsel's season has. This wouldn't be a problem if Glavine was counted on as a #4 starter and paid #4 starter money. As it stands, the Mets expect #2-ish performance at #1-ish salary, and the numbers just don't work.
Bullpen: Braden Looper; Tyler Yates, Bartolome Fortunato and Matt Ginter. Looper is not proven, but he's fine for a rebuilding team that may or may not need a closer very often. They need a solid setup man, like Montreal's Luis Ayala, to replace Mike Stanton, and another lefty as well. Yates and Fortunato vie for the seventh-inning role and Ginter is the long man.
I don't have any real problems with these suggestions. Braden Looper is the Mets closer next year, and has done a good job in that role this season. He hasn't been lights out, and his strikeout rate isn't great (6.59 K/9). His walk and homerun rates have been terrific, though, allowing only 15 walks and 4 homeruns in 82 innings pitched. He'd make a better setup man if the Mets had a real closer, but he'll certainly do.

Tyler Yates, Bartolome Fortunato, and Matt Ginter are all largely unproven, but I would much sooner pay them minimum wage than spend $3-$4 million on has-beens like Mike Stanton and John Franco. Ginter is fine as a long man/spot starter, and Yates and Fortunato would put up good strikeout numbers in relief. It might make sense to start Fortunato at AAA to refine his approach, as he walks way too many batters. Yates, on the other hand, has probably learned all he can in the minors, and will either sink or swim at the big league level.
SHOULD LEAVE

Starters: Al Leiter. Mets will probably be too sentimental to do it, but it's time to cut the bonds on a fruitful seven-year relationship and sign Matt Morris. The Mets need a few starters who can throw 220 innings and Leiter is a six-inning pitcher who taxes the bullpen. Leiter will be sad, but pitching in Game 3 of the World Series for the Yankees will dry his tears.
Amen, brother. Al Leiter needs to take a long walk off a longer pier, so long as he doesn't find his way back to Shea when he's done walking. There is no sound, baseball reason to bring Leiter back in 2005. He's old, he's not very good, and he'll make too much money. I don't see the Yankees jumping too quickly at Leiter, though I could see him adding some "veteran presence" to a young team like the Marlins or the Phillies.
Bullpen: John Franco, Ricky Bottalico, Mike Stanton and Jae Seo. Franco will actually stay on as the bullpen coach. Bottalico has been good, but will make more money elsewhere. Art Howe used Stanton a lot, but he wasn't always reliable and is another guy that isn't part of a rebuilding process. Seo will fetch some value on the trade market.
All signs indicate that John Franco's days pitching for the Mets are over. He hasn't been used much in the second half this season, and the only question remaining is whether he'll try to catch on with another team come 2005.

Ricky Bottalico should probably go. He's been nice enough, but he'll likely want $1+ million, and isn't worth it.

Mike Stanton should certainly go, though it remains to be seen if the Mets will actually get rid of him. If he can bring a relief prospect in return for Stanton and half of his salary in 2005, I say take it.

I haven't yet given up on Jae Seo, but would not be sad to see him go. I'd be okay with him as the long man instead of Ginter, but frankly I don't really care either way. He is not going to be a star with two pitches that both act like change-ups. An 86 mph fastball and an 80 mph off-speed pitch isn't going to cut it in the big leagues (and hasn't all year).
BENCH

SHOULD STAY

Eric Valent, Vance Wilson Gerald Williams and Wilson Delgado. The Volkswagon Bug Bench -- they all have a V or W in their names. They obviously need to add some power, especially from the right side, but these guys have proven their worth this season. Valent can play every day, if need be.

SHOULD LEAVE

Todd Zeile, Jeff Keppinger, Craig Brazell and Jason Phillips. Zeile is retiring, and the rest can go to Triple A.
Eric Valent is a keeper. Gerald Williams and Wilson Delgado are not. Joe McEwing will be back, and can aptly take the spot of both Williams and Delgado. None of the three can hit, and Super Joe plays passably at shortstop, second, and even centerfield.

If you have to keep one catcher, I'd hang on to Jason Phillips. Neither Phillips nor Vance Wilson can hit much, but Phillips is younger and cheaper, and can play first base in a pinch.

Todd Zeile is retiring and Jeff Keppinger should probably go back to AAA. I would keep Danny Garcia as the second-baseman off-the-bench, since he'll get dirty, will step into a pitch, and can take a walk. Craig Brazell can stay too. He has a lot of holes in his swing and isn't much defensively, but he's got great pop, which we've missed on the bench in recent years.
SHOULD COME C Jason Varitek. Not only is he a good all-around player, he will become the gritty team leader this club has needed for a long time. Not afraid to get in anyone's face, regardless of the player's stature, and is a full-accountability guy.

RHP Matt Morris. He's been inconsistent this year, so he won't command as much money in this market, but he's had a very good overall body of work. A local guy from Rockland County, N.Y., who went to Seton Hall, he's pitched in pennant races and has performed under pressure. Second choice is Russ Ortiz.

1B Paul Konerko. He will probably be available in a trade and this would solve a lot of problems about who plays where.
Jeremy did a great job explaining why the Mets should stay away from Jason Varitek, so I won't waste my time. Read his analysis, you'll be glad you did.

I'm iffy on Paul Konerko. He hit his 41st homerun of the season tonight, only walks about as much as an average first baseman, isn't a great fielder (slightly below average according to UZR 2001-2003), and might be looking for too much money. I'd sooner spend half (or less) on Tino Martinez to play outstanding defense at first, which would help out the young infielders immensely, adding whatever offense he can. J.T. Snow will also be a free agent, and he's known to be nifty with the glove and is having an absurdly out-of-character year at the plate, hitting .328/.431/.528. Despite those numbers, he probably won't command a big salary next season, though San Francisco might choose to keep him for another year.

Please don't get me started on Matt Morris. Why his name is thrown about as if he were a solid Major League starting pitcher is difficult to understand. He had his best year by far in 2001 with the Cardinals, when he posted a 3.16 ERA, 7.7 K/9, and 0.54 HR/9. It, as they say, has been all downhill since then. Have a look:

MATT MORRIS 2001-2004

        ERA   K/9   HR/9   BB/9
2001    3.16  7.70  0.54   2.25
2002    3.42  7.32  0.68   2.74
2003    3.76  6.27  1.04   2.04
2004    4.55  5.86  1.50   2.50


Not pretty. His walk rates have been pretty consistent, but his other peripheral stats (K/9 and HR/9) have been declining precipitously since 2001, and his ERAs have been a direct reflection of this trend. He turned 30 this year, and his days as a useful big league pitcher may be behind him. I wouldn't touch him with a ten-foot pole. Run. Far. Away.


Comments

How about the Mets taking Omar Minaya onboard as the head of Baseball Operations? Can't say I'm going to complain about that, not one bit.

Posted by: GM - September 29, 2004 at 03:29 AM EST

It's not clear what a "head of baseball operations" does, exactly, though Minaya is a great baseball mind, no doubt. We can only hope he helps limit the involvement of the Wilpons and the Superscouts in baseball decisions.

Posted by: Eric Simon - September 29, 2004 at 10:06 AM EST

Again, I agree with most of what you say. Just a few thoughts:

1. I think the numbers cited to draw equality between Trach and Glavine bear another look. If you make the range for a great start over 55, Trach only has 2 in that category and Glavine has 6. I think at their best, Trach is a 3-4 and Glavine is a 2-3.

That said, one or both should have been dealt to a contender during the second half.

Rather than Varitek, I'd like to see the Mets make a serious effort to see if Jason Kendall could work here. He's two years younger than Varitek at 30, and those early 30s years are really crucial at the catcher position. The Pirates are eager to deal him because of contract $$$ and will throw money in or a better player. He logged another great season (.318/.401/.791) as of today, .306/379/.801 career, and he is a great defensive catcher.

His contract is high, 10-11-13 for 2005-2007, but ends in 2007 when he is still only 33 and can be expected to still be a prime starting catcher. If the Pirates would take a few kids we've never heard of and kick in 4 mil on each of those years, I'd love that deal.

Posted by: RGJ - September 29, 2004 at 11:07 AM EST

RGJ -

Sure, and if you make the cutoff 53 instead of 55, Glavine and Trachsel both have 7 more great starts. I don't think Glavine is quite as mediocre as Trachsel, he just isn't much better. Glavine started the season strong, but has struggled more recently.

I like Jason Kendall, too, and I could see giving him $15-17 million over the next three years. Maybe the Pirates will take Jeff Keppinger back. Kendall walks enough for a catcher, and draws an absurd number of HBPs (177 in his nine-year career), which bad the OBP. His main downside as a an offensive player is that he just doesn't hit for any power (.070 ISO in 2004).

I could only see acquiring him if the Mets can find a taker for Piazza. I will not endorse Piazza playing first next season.

Posted by: Eric Simon - September 29, 2004 at 11:33 AM EST

Three thoughts:

Kali should be the setup man.

I have no problem with Heilman being the fifth starter.

Danny is not playing again this year and won't be back next year.

Posted by: Matt - September 29, 2004 at 03:19 PM EST

Re: Kendall,

How many leadoff hitters can this hypothetical Mets' lineup support? One problem with this team is that we get very little out of traditional power positions, and don't make that deficiency up with a slugging shortstop or second baseman. Piazza was the x-factor for a while but is in such a decline I don't know what to pencil him in for. It would be nice to have a player of Kendall's talent; we just have more pressing needs to fill.

Posted by: ECA Mike - September 29, 2004 at 07:02 PM EST

I dont know, I like strikeouts and detest walks as much as the next guy, but don't you think evaluating Glavine using game scores is a bit flawed?

Posted by: OFF - September 29, 2004 at 11:34 PM EST

why isnt danny playing any more this year-what did i miss?

Posted by: luis - September 30, 2004 at 08:14 AM EST

[i]How many leadoff hitters can this hypothetical Mets' lineup support? [/i]

When one of them is Jose Reyes, at least 3.

If you have 3 or 4 high OBP/speed guys, I would have a problem putting three of them at the top, partiocularly if our "power" guys are going to be of dubious value like Piazza and Floyd.

I'd be very happy with Reyes, Matsui and Kendall in the first 3 slots, juggling them on who is showing more power or the higher OBP. And if one of them, say Matsui,. slumps, you toss him down the order. And when Reyes goes down as usual, your offense still has some run scorers.

I think Shea is, with a few exceptions, the place where power hitters go to die. We might be better off looking for speed/OBP/doubles in the gaps guys rather than the guy who hit 45 HRs somewhere 4 else and then hits 24 here and bats .225

Posted by: RGJ - September 30, 2004 at 07:41 PM EST

[i]One problem with this team is that we get very little out of traditional power positions, and don't make that deficiency up with a slugging shortstop or second baseman.[/i]

I've been saying this for years. By way of example, we pay the greatest hitting catcher in history $15 million. But he would be a slightly above average right fielder or first baseman ,at leats the last few years. And then we put Timo Perex in right and Eric Valent at 1B, where you should have average power guys for average $$$.

Anytime you have a plus bat at a glove position --catcher shortstop, 2ns base, centerfield, it only averages out to a team benefit if you get at least average output out of the regular power positions at the corners.

When you don't you get a $100 million team with a perennial losing record. Sound familiar?

Posted by: RGJ - September 30, 2004 at 08:52 PM EST

why isnt danny playing any more this year-what did i miss?

Doghouse duty.

Posted by: Matt - September 30, 2004 at 09:51 PM EST

Perhaps they simply favor Keppinger's glove.

Posted by: GM - October 1, 2004 at 12:25 AM EST

IMHO the most important position the Mets need to fill is 1B. They need to find a gold glove caliber first baseman, if they are going with a plan of pitching AND defense. I mean someone's got to actually CATCH the ball being hurled across the infield by Wright, Reyes and Matsui, and it would be nice if the 1B could actually catch a ball that's in the dirt!

The Mets are going to have to use the FA/Non-tender pool of players to fill this position because they've got nobody if close to being capable in their system. Brazell might have some pop in his bat, but he's got a medicore glove at best. Snow won't come east, and the Mets should stop trying to LURE players that don't really want to come here.

I'd try to sign Tino for short money if you can't get the Rockies to trade Helton. Helton is the perfect fit for the Mets. He's a gold glove caliber 1B, with a contact, line drive hitter style. He's a lefty, so if Floyd is dealt(my hope) the Mets have got a replacement. Now before you go nuts about his contract, I'm sure the Mets can get the Rockies to kick in a small amount that would even out his deal to no more than $15-16M per year through year 2011. He'll be 37/38 in the final year of his deal, and the guy's had NO injury problems in his career.

Posted by: NeMetFan - October 1, 2004 at 07:43 AM EST

Isn't Helton out right now with a bad back?

As far as Keppinger, you don't have to be paranoid to figure that the Mets will be desperate to show something for the July trades, with Benson unsigned and Zambrano in bed. I'd say Keppinger and Fortunato are a good bet to make the major league roster for that reason alone.

Posted by: RGJ - October 1, 2004 at 04:24 PM EST

Helton hasn't been out, my bad, was thinking of someone else.

Posted by: RGJ - October 1, 2004 at 04:27 PM EST

"We might be better off looking for speed/OBP/doubles in the gaps guys rather than the guy who hit 45 HRs somewhere 4 else and then hits 24 here and bats .225"

-RGJ

That's an interesting way to look at it. I really haven't given much thought to how Shea impacts the production of the offense, beyond mentally scaling down some numbers.

Park factors are big step toward understanding the idiosyncratic tendencies of particular ballparks, but I really wish I'd read more about the 'whys' that engender the numerical adjustments. It's nice to hear broadcasters say "His line-drive stroke will play well at Shea", and also easy to talk about the effect of the Green Monster at Fenway, but I wonder if there's a better way to look at the less obvious effects of dimensions, groundskeeping, wind, etc. that all factor in.

Knowing this club's blogosphere, I could probably just run a few archive searches and find it. In any case, it'd be nice to have those extra bits of information to find not only which players will perform a bit worse because of Shea, but if perhaps some will perform better.

Posted by: ECA Mike - October 1, 2004 at 06:39 PM EST

My plan:
Trade Glavine to BOS for catching prospect Kelly Shoppach. Pay some of his contract. We get our catcher for 2006 and beyond.Piazza catches for one last season.
Let Leiter walk. i dont care for him.
Sign one or two of the following: Pavano, Clement or Lefty Odalis Perez. Try to trade for a lefty like Zito or Washburn if we cant sign a lefty.
SIgn Delgado for 2-3 years. Better yet, seek trade for Casey.
If PLAYING 2b is not cool with Matsui, trade him to ANA for Kennedy.
RF? roll dice with Diaz.
LF? sign Hidalgo to a reasonable 2-3 deal. i prefer Drew but he's not comming to NY.
Let France retire. Sign Villone as a middle-long relief lefty. not expecnsive. i like Kline but he'll stay in STL.

Posted by: demetri - October 2, 2004 at 05:41 PM EST

I like some of the things you said but some of the things you brought up were crazy. Before glavine lost his two front teeth he was having a great season. Gerald Williams is over the hill. I would rather have Victor Diaz. Matt Morris? Are you for real? That kid went to high school about 30 minutes away from me, so I like him but his first inning numbers are horrible. Mets can't be down to start his games. Carl Pavano is a much better pitcher and Zito is on the trading block. Trachsel, Jae Seo, Heilman, and Ginter can all be traded. Floyd needs to go. Franco will be gone. McEwing is good insurance if Reyes or Matsui gets injured. Find an AL team to take Piazza. Have Wilson and Phillips at catcher. Get a first baseman and an OFer. Delgado? Sexson? Drew? Ordonez? Beltran? We probably won't get any big names... I like Hidalgo but he is streaky. He can stay for the right price. I would be much obliged if you write back to my email address what you thought. LAte

Posted by: Mike - October 4, 2004 at 05:46 PM EST

Mike -

You have to realize that the quotes (the text in the boxes) are from the Star Ledger articles. What follows the quotes are my responses. Of course Matt Morris is a bum, which is why I said:

"...He turned 30 this year, and his days as a useful big league pitcher may be behind him. I wouldn't touch him with a ten-foot pole..."

I'm not sure if you're implying that Glavine's car accident was the cause of his decline; I would find that hard to believe. Glavine struck out about one batter every two innings this season, which is terrible (41st out of 45 among NL pitchers). He is a #3 pitcher at best.

I would steer clear of Carl Pavano. Ditto Odalis Perez and Russ Ortiz. The Mets already have soft-tossers in Glavine and Steve Trachsel. I would focus on strikeout pitchers like Matt Clement and Jaret Wright.

As I mentioned in a previous post, I think the Mets should let Richard Hidalgo walk, unless they find a bigger bat at first base and can afford his streakiness and solid defense in right field.

I agree with you that Victor Diaz should be given a shot somewhere, and that Cliff Floyd should be traded. No team is going to take Mike Piazza, and I have no problem with him catching for the Mets in 2005.

As far as big name free agents, I would throw everything the Mets can muster at Carlos Beltran. He's a surer thing than Vlad Guerrero was last year, and Vlad was a pretty sure thing. Beltran brings better defense, better baserunning, better plate discipline, is a switch hitter, has no injury history, should I go on? The consensus is that he'll go to the Yankees, which is probably the case.

I've advocated J.D. Drew in the past, and still do, despite his injury history. He's still young and is very, very good.

I'm not too high on Ordonez, particularly with his injuries this season. Delgado is getting old, isn't much with the glove, and will be 34-35 before the Mets are contenders. Great bat, but the Mets should look elsewhere. Sexson is a nice hitter, but he'll be 30 in December.

Posted by: Eric Simon - October 4, 2004 at 08:09 PM EST

Somepone said up above that McEwing is a great option next year to backup Reyes/Matsui. That chilled my blood. Any team that is going to start a season with Jose Reyes better have a backup SS that is a red chest hair away from being a full time major league player, both with the glove and the bat.That is not Joe McEwing now, if it ever was.

Posted by: RGJ - October 5, 2004 at 01:49 PM EST

[i]According to Newsday, Benson and the Mets are getting closer on a three-year deal worth $21-$24 million, which is probably okay. With Zambrano likely to make in the $1-$2 million range at arbitration, the Mets can probably afford to go a million or so over market to keep Benson.[/i]

I disagree, and I will explain why.

With the Omar regime under way, the Mets have a clean slate not to be bound by the mistakes of the past. I'm not saying Benson was a mistake, but at this point the Mets must simply consider him another free agent pitcher, and, in fact, value him somewhat below other free agent pitchers, because should they other Benson arbitration, he would decline, and the Mets would pick up a draft pick.

If the choice is basically even on all accounts between Benson and another FA pitcher, the Mets should pick the other pitcher and collect the draft pick, rather than overpay for Benson.

It is simply bad business to feel your hand forced by the perception of a previous business mistake. Reality is: Kris Benson is a free agent pitcher now, one of a number that the Mets should be looking at -- what happened before is history.

Posted by: RGJ - October 5, 2004 at 01:56 PM EST

I've taken that stance in the past, and agree with you to some extent. The Mets shouldn't sign Benson just to save face, but should sign him because they think he's a good pitcher who wants to pitch in New York. He's not very glamorous, but has shown good signs of late. I'm not particularly high on too many of the free agent pitchers (Morris, Perez, Pavano).

I agree that he should be offered arbitration if a deal can't be hammered out before the World Series ends, but he'll probably only be worth a 2nd rounder, and I'd certainly rather have Benson than Matt Morris and a 2nd round pick.

That said, I do agree that Benson shouldn't be signed to justify the trade that brought him here, but because (if) the Mets think he's a good pitcher.

Posted by: Eric Simon - October 5, 2004 at 02:56 PM EST

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